sluggobear

I hope you don't mind me sharing some thoughts. You don't know me and I don't really know you (although I've been a visitor to your journal for awhile) but we struggle with the same issue. I've been on the same roller coaster ride you've been on, and I'm here to say that it hasn't been the E-ticket ride that I remember fondly as a kid at Disneyland.

I've done the same things you've done--nutritionist, personal trainer, most diets and weight loss scams, even went to Overeaters Anonymous--yet I've managed to put the weight back on each time. And yes, you're right, it's a vindictive foe this weight loss because it really does pay you back in spades for trying to lose the weight. Each time I hit a new high, I could kick myself for complaining about when I weighed less. I'd give anything to be back at the 230, 250, 280, 300, I thought was too much.

So, short of gastric bypass (which doesn't even really seem to work--see Al Roker, Randy Jackson, Carne Wilson among others) or losing your life to crystal meth, it seems that there's nothing we can do to reverse the pounds. Wiring the mouth shut seems like torture. . .and we know there's a way around that! The thought of never eating sugar, chocolate, bread, or pasta feels like a punishment greater than death. I'm only a few years older than you, and I haven't found the secret yet; but I'm starting to think that it really doesn't have anything to do with the actual food. For me at least, I think it's what the food represents or what it does for me that makes me in a sense, addicted.

I haven't quite figured out my triggers but there must be a few since I turn to food regularly to feel good, release stress, celebrate, commiserate, fight boredom, soothe, and just plain veg out, but not in the healthy vegetarian way. My journey is taking me in a different direction now as I explore why I eat in hopes that I might find a good reason to eat less, eat healthier, and believe that I deserve to feel and look the way I want to. For me, food has become an addiction and it's the nastiest of the lot. An alcoholic can decide to never drink again but you can't just stop eating. It's like you've got to live with your addiction laughing in your face as you take the next bite of food.

I don't know if this rings true for you but I thought I'd give you my take. It's an individual experience so I'm sure it's different for everyone. I'm just no longer convinced that the solution is as you say a "lifestyle change", I think it's more of a closet cleaning. We eat for a reason but why do we eat to the extreme?

I think you bring up a really good point here.

Thanks for the post... yes, some of these things ring true for me.

Al Roker, Randy Jackson, Carnie Wilson, have they all gained the weight back?

That easily adds weight.....something I know all too well....

Only suggestion I will make: avoid all soda (even diet soda)....I was amazed to discover this year that diet soda will still cause an insulin response in the blood, disingenuously letting our bodies believe we are "sated", shutting down our fat burning production... People who tend to drink diet soda will either maintain weight or gain (since the body is tricked it doesn't need to burn fat while still allowing our appetites to run rapid)......That goes for all sugar substitutes (splenda, etc).....If you wanna lose weight, reduce sugar in your diet (and avoid sugar substitutes)....

Good luck with the weight loss...I'm going through the same thing right now (30-50 lb weight loss goal by end of year) xoxoxoxoxo

Yah! I do believe soda is a contributor, even diet... as well as the sugar and substitutes!

*sigh*

I've been fighting weight problems all my life. I'm diabetic and my doctor keeps giving me warnings. I also have a CPAP by my side.

I know that "fat" isn't healthy, or it's not supposed to be, but I keep hearing about the "obesity paradox."

Another study showed that there is an inverse proportion from thin to obese in relationship to heart failure. You are twice as likely to die as a result of heart failure if you are underweight than if you're obese.

And it goes further, mortality rates are about the same for obese and thin individuals. Not only that, but borderline obese individuals have a lower mortality rate than those of ideal weight.

Overweight people are more likely to survive in times of disaster (that's common sense) and new discoveries show that the successful gladiators weren't muscle bound, but carried excessive weight (it seems the excessive fat protected the vital organs.

I'm not saying that being "fat" is a good thing. But as new studies are beginning to show that the idea of fat being unhealthy may not be all that true. If your family is "big" then it may a genetic predisposition and you body may require that weight to maintain health. This seems to be especially true if you do regular exercise.

Listening to radio doctor, Dean Edell, he gets many questions about weight, diet and exercise. People that eat exceptionally healthy in order to live longer. He said that maybe the Europeans have the right idea... that the idea isn't to live longer, but to LIVE. Some of the most self absorbed people are the ones who hang out at the health food store, eat stuff that tastes like cardboard, exercise everyday... and you have to ask yourself about the quality of their life. Studies show that they certainly don't live longer.

My former partner was a bit on the chubby side, but took care of himself and died of lung cancer (and he didn't smoke). My current partner is a big man, who is diabetic and has recently had kidney failure, lost sight in one eye, diminished eye sight in the other eye, and he had one of his legs amputated.

It wasn't the diabetes, but an antibiotic resistant staph infection. The doctors told him that he should be dead, but it's possible that his bulk allowed him to survive the ordeal. (The way I'm going, I may have to give up on relationships).

And we all know that diets don't work. Almost everyone I know who has lost significant weight and gained it back and then some. This is true for a couple of guys I know who went through gastric bypass surgery.

I will try to eat better and take a walk every other day, but other than that, I plan to enjoy my life on my own terms.

Thanks for the post... this was helpful. I too have seen studies that show there isn't always a direct correlation between weight and actual health!

The people you know who had gastric bypass... did they gain all the weight back, or just some? (And how long did it take?)

Your graph is cute. But I say fuck the numbers and focus on feeling good. Being active feels good! Do something you consistently do to feel good. I walk 3-6km a day to and from work. The only exceptions are days it rains or if I'm late. Go to dance clubs sober to dance not to get laid (honestly). Or drink if you can resist the 7-11 later. Get a pair of fruit boots. Get a shitty bike and ride around some trails (get the awesome bike if you keep it up later). Eat more vegetables. Make time to do this shit. Diets and gyms and statistical reports are horse shit. Engineer your lifestyle.

I agree with your statement about fucking the numbers and focus on feeling good.

The problem is, with my apnea, I will never feel good until I reduce the layers of fat in my upper respiratory tract. To do that, I need to lose weight, pure and simple.

(Interestingly, I did note that I am getting exercise when I go out dancing... I drink sometimes but not that much any more.)

I started-up a biking club of sorts... I have a semi-decent bike and I'm on it regularly.

I've been a big guy, ok, FAT, just about all my life. I've had a few times where I've done the gym thing, or the diet thing, and lost weight, but then I gain it back.

Now I am at a point where I haven't gotten any bigger since I moved to sf, although I did gain just after I moved here.

I have no answers for me, let alone you! I know I eat too much, but sometimes I just do it anyway. It's weird.

Oh well.

*sigh*

i know my supervisor at the times-delta lost 100 pounds since her pregnancy 2-3 years ago. her name is jamie gonzales.

That's great to hear... I think I'm just not confident about the sustainability of major weight loss.

Okay, no exercise or nutrition tips. I'll answer your question of "why has my weight gone up", though. Your graph seems to bear witness to my theory that once you hit 28, your metabolism begins to slow down. Your hormone levels shift, making muscle harder to gain and fat more difficult to lose. We also get more established in our professions, and it seems that the higher up we are in the food chain at work, the less moving around we need to do. But being higher up, we have more stresses put on us, and that makes us less aware of what we eat.

I, like you, have severe food issues. I have discovered over the years that I'm pretty much food's bitch, and I have to eat what's in front of me. The only way I keep from ballooning is to slam myself in the gym as much as possible.

I have also discovered that I eat in accordance with the people around me, and the older I get, the more I seem to hang out with people who are tired at the end of a long day and just want to eat dinner and collapse. If I'm around healthy people, I eat much better. *shrug* It's just what happens to me - perhaps you have similar experiences in your own life.

i would chime in on this last part, too - i notice that once guys join bear groups where large size is the norm and all events are buffets, they get larger, too ... choosing the events you attend wisely reduces the temptation. surrounding yourself with folks who do the right things would help.

most important, i think, is never give up trying - i know of folks who have thrown in the towel, and the outcome of that in the long run is not good.

best of luck ...

Years ago, when I weighed much much much less than I do now I stumbled on this set of cassette tapes that basically stated that your body had a "set point" or a base weight it tries to maintain. Everytime this is threatened it raises it to protect you from starvation so that the natural result of dieting is weight gain. Your "sucess" with weight loss is actually viewed as starvation by the body.

Unfortunately I never seriously started the so called program, probably because the tapes had a whole lot of blah blah blah blah on them. I was like "Doooood! I already bought into this, just tell me what to do already!"

In anycase I'm a believer in the whole setpoint/rebound thing.

Let's face it - there was a time when a majority of the 9 - 5 didn't involve sitting for hours typing, getting in your car, driving to the fast food place so that you could go back to your desk and eat it over the monitor.

Oh well.

I didn't make any suggestions did I? Don't behead me - although some would argue you would be removing the largest piece of fat on me.

:-P

Oh oh oh oh! And speaking of cheeseburgers - did you ever see that simpsons where they advertise that burger with the fried egg? We take eighteen ounces of sizzling ground beef, and soak it in rich, creamery butter, then we top it off with bacon, ham, and a fried egg. We call it the Good Morning Burger. Stare that one down! I feel your pain!

I remember the Simpsons episode and I kind of had the same feeling when Carl's Jr starting selling a version quite similar to it ;-)

I'm just throwing a bunch of stuff at you. Take what you want, leave what you want.

I just went on a cruise with a bunch of bears and 75% of them were on some kind of diet and were successful. The majority of them were on Weight Watchers. There seemed to be a positive peer pressure (support network maybe is the better term) going on for them.

My straight bear friend Chris has been doing weight watchers with his wife. He's also been biking alot (to work, errands, and of course the bar). He makes trade offs. He doesn't want to give beer, so he bikes to the bar which is probably 15 miles round trip. He's recommended the book "Volumetrics" (which I haven't read yet).

My father has dealt with weight issues his whole life. I hear some of the same things out of him even when he's successfully loosing weight..."It only works for so long, then I start gaining again". He was doing his best when my sister started doing Weight Watchers. He started doing it too. When my sister quit "officially" doing weight watchers, he quit too and has started back with some (but not all) of his eating habits. I'm not sure where that "It only works for so long, then I start gaining again"...there's what came first...the chicken or the egg aspect that could be eternally debated. But...that phrase seems to be key.

I haven't had the same weight struggles as my sister and father, but I still am heavier than I should be for my health. What has helped me is to look at my eating habits and what are my problems spots. The other was to set obtainable goals. I set a goal of a pound a week and I weigh myself every two weeks. I have found that the little things DO add up. The sneaking from the candy dish, the sugared pop etc. I replaced them with alternatives that I could live with (I have about 4 Crystal light White Tea Bluebery flavored waters a day now.) These methods have worked for me, it may or may not work for you. Feel free to steal or borrow any of htem.

Find what works for you. You seem to be analytical enough to come up with a spreadsheet and graph for this post. An idea might be to use that analytical behavior and focus it on the everyday instead of the past.

Thanks for the tidbits. A few notes...

75% of them were on some kind of diet and were successful. The majority of them were on Weight Watchers.

I've been to Weight Watcher meetings. They have some useful stuff. But my question is this: How many of them have sustained it for more than 5 years?

Little things do add up.

I truly believe that. However, the long-term sustainability still seems to elude just about everyone.

I have sleep apnea, and I use CPAP.

Supposedly, because my sleep is not interrupted by the apnea, the flow of a hormone in my brain that regulates hunger/weight or something is supposed to be balanced - the bottom line, people lose weight when they have their apnea resolved through surgery, CPAP or BiPAP.

Which for me, has been absolute bullshit.

With the apnea treated, I am less tired during the day, have more energy, etc. but I still stuff my face with the best of em.

I'm looking forward to your further postings on sleep apnea.

Lord knows I have lots to say about apnea! Just haven't had the time to put it all down on LJ.

Do you feel alert during the day? Have you had a sleep study done recently? Apnea can change over time... CPAP's sometimes need to be adjusted after awhile. They do home-studies now that can give a general idea of how well you're doing.

Still, that does suck about the weight thing. Back in 1993, someone told me that they were about to start CPAP treatment (still relatively new at that time) and that he expected the pounds to magically melt-off. I didn't believe it then, and I don't believe it now.

Still, I do know that apnea does prevent most people from escaping the rut. I guess successful treating apnea doesn't always mean a guaranteed escape from the weight problem. :-(

Mikey, just don't stop exercising. That would be the worst thing. It doesn't matter what you do, ride a bike, walk, whatever. just try and focus on doing what makes you feel good. Also just try to be a little more aware of what you are eating. I know that sucks, but even if you do it some of the time, that's GOT to be better than just ignoring it completely. Believe me, I've gained over 45lbs since I moved to Portland, and most of that is from not paying attention and not getting outside and doing something.
And yes there's also that whole being a couple now thingy that magically seems to make you gain weight.
Good luck bub, I think it's the most difficult thing to tackle and control

vwcub is onto something Mikey! This is the best advice I've seen. Ignore the numbers, ignore the math, you know how you feel. Bob's going through the same thing right now.

More food = more weight

It's not staring at the cheeseburger, it is eating it.

If you keep weight off for 5 years, that doesn't mean you can start eating poorly again.

Older means slower metabolism means having to eat less, not more.

Rebound weight although a studied phenomenon, does not mean you shouldn't lose weight.

I am always on a diet...always, always, always...for the rest of my life.

I always have to exercise, always, always, always, for the rest of my life.

I will always be a big guy and thank god some other guys like that.

These are the realities of a life that guys like us have, with genes that were given to us to help our species survive over the ages.

I agree with you 100% buddy.

I'm not giving-up.

I think what I'm saying is... something is working against us, and it's not just a lack of willpower.

I am in a similar situation with my Diabetes. I drop weight, gain weight, and so on...

Currently, I look forward to lab results that show I have made some improvement with sugar control over previous results.

Best wishes Bud, on the journey to better health.

Hugs..

Thanks buddy... how often do you have to do lab results?

Have you heard about that Exubera thing that just came out? I know it came with many restrictions, but at least it made treatment easier?

Bear, you've gotten some great advice here from folks who care about you. I think if you keep active like you've started to already and spend a bit more of the small amount of free time you have on the move, and not following your passions on the net you'll be surprised at what you see. And heck, as yer friends we can stop enabling you buy ordering a shitload of pizzas for dinner etc.

I don't think your solution is going to be one big dramatic change. I think it's going to be a lot of subtle changes that will require a shift in your mindset and a reordering of your goals and priorities. And lastly, a lot of hard work.

I think the comment made above about it not being what a person eats but why/when they eat it makes a lot of sense too. Rang true with me at least.

Everyone is quick to offer advice about how to lose weight. While I'm thankful for the input, these tips are not news to me. I already know I can lose weight by eating right and getting more physical activity. I could vow to never touch a computer again, but that would not change my main point, which is this:

No one... (and no book, weight program, doctor or nutritionist...) NO ONE can explain how to keep the weight off for any meaningful period of time... say, more than 5 years. (With a very few exceptions, which I am still investigating, and will blog about soon.)

It's not just a matter of willpower. There's something else that we are missing.

Wow you've gotten some amazing advice here.

I had a question, you mentioned you had the UPPP surgery and your apnea went away. Is is still gone or with the weight gone, it came back? My doctors keep telling me it's my weight but a year ago when I dropped down to 190lbs I still had apnea and now I'm a round 230lbs it's the same. So I wonder if I should try it because I still after many years cannot get used to the CPAP.

Howdy!

The problem went away immediately after I had UPPP. But gradually, over time, it came back.

I enjoyed about 3 years of having no apnea symptoms.

The surgery is not effective for everyone, and with some people the condition returns eventually. But it does work for some.

There are other types of surgery and treatments that have been used over the last few years... it might be good to talk to a doctor about any possibilities!

I am resisting the 'advice' but I have to say, I think it's really great that you have this record of your weight loss. Such detail. The graph looks great.

I guess it's just great to know other people have shared similar problems. Over the last 3 or 4 years I've been worrying about my weight, but my b/f is a lot bigger than me, he will enjoy reading this.

Cheers

Thanks bud.

Yah I was kinda surprised myself at the level of detail I kept. (Wow, I'm super-anal-retentive!)

Actually the journal has a lot more... I kept a log of my tiredness, when I exercised, what prescriptions I took... also I kept some running commentary, which was very interesting in retrospect!

I've read about that, and I know there is an emotional component to eating.

I do tend to eat more when I'm in a social setting (perhaps to make it so I don't have to talk as much!? Hmmm...)

Still, I believe that there's something in our body chemistry that fights-back, prevents us from losing weight, and drives us back towards eating again.

I'm definitely not saying we should accept it and give-up.

No beheadings! Kiss and hug, handsome...

Howdy--

Based on this post and other things I recall you writing about, I think your big problem is with your parasympathetic nervous system. (Or, at least, it may be something to rule out.) This part of the body is something western medicine doesn't understand well, so it doesn't get much attention.

The easiest things to try are meditating/breath-counting or non-aerobic yoga--the type where you could do 2 or 3 hours and not sweat. The most visible places for these things may be aggressively new-agey and/or strange, but you can find good ones if you look. Try it for a month or two. As these things become more recognized, more and more insurance plans are covering them as "preventative" or "stress relief." It may seem silly at first--it did to me--but it works. Your blood pressure and cholesterol will go down, as will your appetite. This should be done in addition to exercise or whatever else you are doing. I've been gradually and slowly losing weight for about 3 years now. I'd be doing much better, but my exercise habits are abysmal.

One thing that kept me from starting this sort of thing for ages was I thought I didn't have the time. The kicker is that your concentration (I bet) will improve along with over-all time management. I can get more info for you if you like....

My blood pressure is actually in pretty good shape. My triglycerides are high. Stress? Hmmmm... yeah I suppose I should own a bit of that.

I don't know much about Yoga, other than it looks like it's not cheap! LOL